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A dire disappointment so far with CrossOver - Requesting help with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
Raptus
Raptus
Posted 2014-01-09 16:58
Hi CrossOver community!

A couple of days ago I decided to go ahead and buy a copy of Crossover games as it looked and seemed like a relatively well supported and official program that could deal with Windows games on Linux, thought that would save me the bother of going through Wine configurations.

However so far, and in such a short space of time i've bumped into issue after issue...

1. Ubuntu 12.04 seems completely unsupported. I had to install this program via ./install command line with the bin file, why is this so? It's long term support version, there shouldn't be any issues with the .deb file?

2. I've tried setting up my registration, I will input all the correct details and i'll get a prompt that it's ''unable to find license file'' oh great I just paid for product I can't even activate!

3. After numerous attempts of trying to install Star Wars: Jedi Academy i'll just get a cxoffice error, that'll prevent me from installing the game any further. Attempted many times, same problem everytime.

Well not being funny here, but I thought when you buy a product, you expect it to work to full capabilities on long supported Ubuntu versions...So far i've got nothing but bother from this program and thoroughly regret buying before trying. As the time and effort i've already spent trying to get paid software to work, i could of simply dipped into configuring Wine instead? Also pay for support? I've just bought your product and I have to pay for you to help me on your dire and broken software?

After releasing some well justified anger... Has anybody managed to get CrossOver to work on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? or more specifically got Jedi Academy on Crossover to work on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

Josh DuBois
Josh DuBois  Staff Member
Posted 2014-01-09 17:10
I'm very sorry it's been disappointing for you.  The matter of Ubuntu 12.04 was a hard call, but the multiarch transition had to happen sometime and we faced the choice of .debs which weren't compatible with 12.04 or having a messy proliferation of .deb installers.  Because there were library & dependency problems anyway with the old .deb installers, we opted to go with the .bin on 12.04 and move ahead with multiarch .deb packages.

CrossOver certainly ought to be able to find your license files.  If it cannot, we will help you figure out why.

Phone support requires extra, yes, but we have a ticket system and we do answer those tickets.  I would encourage you to file a support ticket in addition to posting in the forums.  The forums are a pretty active place and there are a lot of users who can frequently offer even better advice than we can, particularly with regard to specific systems or games.

I don't personally know anything about the game you are asking about.  Again, I would suggest a support ticket.  Maybe we can get you up and running - we will certainly try.

Regards,

    Josh.
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-09 21:10
Sup mate,

I just stumbled upon this post while trying to find something else, but I'll try to provide you with the information I have. However, before I do so, I'd like to ask Mr. Dubois something: If a .deb installation is not possible, why not update the version supplied to us via the 12.04 Ubuntu Software-Center? I'd even prefer it that way. It has been done with previous Crossover releases. No need for debs, it just makes stuff more complicated. Is it a technical issue holding back an update via the USC?

About the issues you are having Raptus:

1. For stability and support reasons, I have also decided to stick with the LTS releases of Ubuntu. In fact, the LTS releases are recommended for mainstream adaptation and I don't want to use an OS that will be upgraded every six months, like the normal Ubuntu releases, as this could and actually will break compatability with some of my software. I need a solid and long lasting system. Only LTS can provide such a thing. That being said, I really feel your pain of having to install Crossover and its dependencies + libs manually. Fortunately, Codeweavers has offered me some pretty good support and while there are still some issues with the product, it works pretty good in its current state... after you have tweaked it a bit. I'll share some of the information provided to me below.

2. How and where are you trying to register your version of Crossover? I just registered via the software itself by typing in my E-Mail and password.


3.

- I assume you are trying to install the retail CD of the game? Or is it a digital version?

- How and where (which bottle) are you trying to install the game into? Are you trying to install it into a new and fresh bottle or in an existing one? According to the compatability database, installing the game in a fresh "Steam bottle" seems to work.

- Or are you trying to install the game via Crosstie? I found out that some Crossties are old and sometimes it works better to install an application manually and then adding the stuff it needs afterwards. It'd be nice to see the creation date of the Crosstie files.

- What are your hardware specs and which GPU drivers do you have installed on your system?

- Have you checked Crossover for important dependencies and libs? If you have not done so yet, you can check for missing dependencies by running this in a terminal:
~/cxoffice/bin/cxdiag

This will list any libraries that are missing that Crossover may need. You can then install them using the guides available here http://www.codeweavers.com/support/wiki/diag

Beware: After typing and confirming the above command, the terminal will show you a bunch of suggested, recommended and highly recommended 32-bit libs missing on your system. Continue with caution! I say this for a very good reason. In my case, I tried to download and install a few missing libs, which resulted in the deinstallation of some other stuff. For example: I tried to install a missing "libgsm" library, which then uninstalled the "libgsm1" (64-bit?) library that was installed by default, and it also uninstalled:

gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavcodec53 libavformat53 libavutil51 libgsm1 minitube-ubuntu phonon-backend-vlc vlc vlc-nox vlc-plugin-notify vlc-plugin-pulse

- minitube-ubuntu ... (the entire app)
- gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg ...
- gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ...
- vlc-plugin-pulse ...
- vlc-plugin-notify ...
- vlc ...
- phonon-backend-vlc ...
- vlc-nox ...
- libavformat53 ...
- libavcodec53 ...

Some of the above is used by VLC, Pitivi, Openshot and other software I have installed on my system.

Final words:

I feel your frustration and I do think customers of 12.04 deserve a packaged and updated version of Crossover. Even though it's been a messy situation for me on my stable LTS, I still appreciate the work Codeweavers is doing here and I am pleased with the level of support they have been offering me via ticket. Most of my Steam games run with no or minimal manual config from my side. Btw, you already "bought" support by purchasing the product. Don't give up just yet, maybe we can convince these guys to package and update the 12.04 USC version of Crossover 13.0.1 for us. It would be nice to be able to download and install the software in an automated, clean and easy way.

Alex
Josh DuBois
Josh DuBois  Staff Member
Posted 2014-01-09 21:16
Alexander Tornow Posted:
Sup mate,
Is it a technical issue holding back an update via the USC?



For our recent CrossOver versions, yes, unfortunately.  :(
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-09 21:33
Hello Mr. Dubois,

that was fast!

Is it a technical issue that you guys are planning on getting fixed for 12.04, or is this issue something that will be addressed in, let's say, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS? The thing is: I have been recommending Ubuntu LTS for some time now. Some of my friends, Steam and Skype contacts - and even my family uses it. I am somewhat able to understand and follow the commands given to me by your support staff, but it's going to be impossible for my contacts to do so, which will render some apps useless for them. They usually download and install stuff only via the USC - they don't know any better. This means these folks will continue to use the version supplied to them via the USC, which is 12.5.0. That's a version that happens to be incompatible with the newest Steam update, right? These guys (and aliens) won't be able to dig into this stuff as "deep" as I have. Something like this could happen:


Alex
Josh DuBois
Josh DuBois  Staff Member
Posted 2014-01-09 21:46
Alexander Tornow Posted:
Hello Mr. Dubois,

Is it a technical issue that you guys are planning on getting fixed for 12.04, or is this issue something that will be addressed in, let's say, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS?
Alex


We do have some options open to us, which possibly we ought to go ahead and take, but so far have not.  The issue is that we want to have a particular library as a dependency if we can get it (something for digital cameras, I believe), but we don't need it so badly that we can't live without it.  Our weak dependency on that library is fine in our own .deb packages, but the library is unavailable in the USC and therefore we can't get our package in there, even with a weak reference.  (This is all my understanding - I don't write the .deb packages.  I believe that Ubuntu repackages everything you submit to the USC and converts weak dependencies to strong ones, but that is my hand-waving: as I say, I don't do those packages.)  

We could make the compromise to remove it across the board (hurting other users who do rely on it, but it's a relatively rare need), or we could probably (I'm not sure how much trouble this would be) special-case the Ubuntu package to lack the weak reference.  So far we've been hoping that it will be more or less resolved upstream.  So ... hopefully in 14.04 ... or maybe we bite the bullet and make some compromise ourselves...
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-09 22:49
Hello Mr.Dubois,

I'm not sure I am able to comprehend it well enough in order to provide useful feedback. Unfortunately, I lack the knowledge to do so, but I'll try anyway.

Well, I guess it depends on how you prioritize. I wouldn't suggest removing the particular library for everyone, because that could cause some uproar, even it's a rare need. Instead, I think the idea of making a "special case" for Ubuntu sounds pretty good. The 12.5.0 version delivered to us via the USC is a special Ubuntu version anyway, right? If I remember correctly, it's called "Ubuntu Edition"

Would it be possible to make a special case only for the version provided via USC 12.04? You could still change things for 14.04. I think 12.04 users wouldn't mind missing that particular and rare library, if they can get an updated version of Crossover 13 instead. Either way - users will be missing some functionality. For example: If you keep the 12.5.0 version of Crossover on the 12.04 USC, users of this version won't be able to login to Steam anymore and some other apps might stop working. Missing functionality right there. If you provide updates to the CO version on 12.04 USC lacking the weak reference, some users will be missing the particular and rare library you mentioned. There is a compromise to be made in both cases. Which compromise is more acceptable?

14.04 is just around the corner, but I guess not everyone is going to jump ships right away. From my experience, the folks I know usually wait a while before upgrading, just to make sure the plattform becomes a bit more mature before moving forward. Some might even stick around to the very end. It would be nice of you guys to support the ppl on 12.04 during its lifetime, without having to wait several months for an updated version via the USC. New features are nice, but guaranteeing basic functionality of supported apps sounds like a priority to me. [Edit:] I just had a great siesta and during that siesta I had a vision. If you guys decide to move forward with the idea, please make sure to also fix the missing lib issues for current and future Ubuntu 32- and 64-bit LTS editions.

Alex
Pierre
Pierre Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 8
Posted 2014-01-10 09:45
When I was testing the latest CX aka v13, it would not work on Ubuntu 12.04 / Mint 13 LTS.
however, the older versions of Cx like v12.5 - do still work just fine.

- the Cx v13 will work on later versions of Ubuntu / Mint - the ones that were released about 18 months after the LTS ..
so, the choice is to either upgrade to a later version of Ubuntu / Mint  -  OR  downgrade to a earlier version of CX .. ..

there is still an assumption that the later version(s) of Cx will continue to work with the Ubuntu 14.04 / Mint 17 LTS
as they will be an extension of what is working with CX v13 & the later versions of Ubuntu / Mint.

Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-10 17:13
Hello Pierre,

yes, that is true. In fact, you can actually just download and install Crossover 12.5.0 via Ubuntu Software Center 12.04 LTS and use it. You will still have to check for and install a bunch of missing libraries afterwards though. That should get fixed asap. Raptus has a point though: For a normal user, doing something like that is like magic - it's too complicated and leads to frustration. If Crossover is suppose to be an easier, more user friendly approach than vanilla Wine and PlayOnLinux, stuff like that should be fixed asap and in short time. Not months afterwards or possibly never. Also, if you buy and use Crossover via USC 12.04, the 12.5.0 version of Crossover you get will not work with Steam anymore, which means: For someone who just paid for a working product, expecting to be able to use it with a supported app, it is unacceptable to be forced to live with this regression or face the alternative of an advanced manual installation via .bin, being forced to manually install libs afterwards. This is something that could lead to the deletion of other important libs and even some of your purchased software (like in my special situation, see post above).

In our case (Raptus and I), we were able to work around this issue, because we were capable of installing the .bin version of Crossover 13 for 12.04 LTS, but this will be impossible for the mainstream user Ubuntu is targeting. If you are going to provide and support software for a longterm Ubuntu version via USC, you should be prepared to meet basic user requirements, which means to at least guarantee a working solution/product for supported apps, such as Steam, and provide constant/regular updates during the lifetime of the plattform you are selling your product on via the same easy and approachable method the user purchased the product - USC. I could understand dropping support for the six month releases of Ubuntu after the official nine month OS support from Canonical dies, but not for a LTS that still has years of official support ahead of it. Also, even Ubuntu 13.10 has an outdated version of Crossover 12.5.0 in USC. A version that will freeze during installation, which could potentially cause problems after you force quit and reboot the machine.

As Mr. Dubois mentioned, I think it would be fair and wise of them to upgrade the 12.04 LTS product that is being sold and offered via USC asap, especially if the "only" thing holding it back is a relatively rare lib for digital camera functionality, and provide and prepare an up to date version of Crossover for the new and upcoming 14.04 LTS. You could even go one step further and support Ubuntu 13.10 during its short, very short lifetime. However, if Codeweavers has to prioritize due to workforce issues, the focus should be the LTS version and not the shortliving six month releases of the OS. After all, the LTS is what is being sold to users when buying a new Ubuntu machine and it is the standard installation for mainstream adaptation.

Raptus has a good point and issues like these can and will lead to frustration of potential customers. Just take a look at the negative user one and two star reaction due to the same issues Raptus and I have been having. It's exactly what Raptus and other "newbs" have said coming from Wine: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/raring/crossover-trial/

Alex
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-10 17:52
Hi Alex
I can understand your frustration I am an Opensuse user and over a year ago CodeWeavers dropped crossover support for my distro. Leaving Me to fend for my self. The thing you need to consider is the Crossover team is small and there are so many linux distros not to mention all the curves Apple has been throwing at them. The fact is if you do not want to install and use Windows (ahhhh) crossover is the best option out there and I for one will keep supporting the crossover team.
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-10 18:20
Hello Gary,

I agree with you that we should continue to support Codeweavers, which is exactly what I am doing. Not only did I purchase their software, I am also giving feedback and ranking my experiences via this website, I am recommending their product on our own league website for DCUO, and I am also posting a bunch of feedback on the Steam forums for other Linux/Ubuntu users. Considering my own experience, seeing the feedback I have received from others, reading what "newbs" are complaining about here on the forums and via USC comments - I can relate to most of it.

See here for Steam example: http://steamcommunity.com/app/71230/discussions/0/630802343965522500/
See here for DC example: http://diesuperhelden.wordpress.com/2013/12/24/dcuo-auf-playstation-und-windows-pc-was-ist-mit-mac-und-linux/

Frustration? Oh yeah, especially because installing those libs actually deleted some of my stuff, but I do appreciate their work. I understand Codeweavers is relatively small and what they're doing is something huge. If what you say is true: I also understand they could be lacking the workforce to make the previously mentioned a reality. If this is the case and if they're lacking the workforce to support several plattforms all at once, they could focus on less and maybe even limit support for two or three major mainstream plattforms (Apple, Ubuntu and another distro, for example). That's one of the reasons why Valve chose to focus and support Ubuntu 12.04 LTS only, and then move forward to other distros, if their work proves to be successful and fruitful. Valve isn't exactly a huge team either, but they understand how to use and focus what they have on what can be done. Step by step. In this case, supporting less actually means having more, because you can focus on delivering an awesome experience for a selected group of ppl instead of making a "hit or miss" situation out of it for everyone. In my opinion, that's better than having to deal with all of stuff that is going on right now and would actually fix a good chunk of the negative feedback issue.

Alex
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-10 19:45
Hay Alex
I can see your point it is probably why Crossover stopped official support  for Opensuse I have confidence Codeweavers  will find a solution and I'm shore some one will be disappointed. They will never be able to support all the distro and there variants.  

Cheers Gary
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-10 20:22
Hello Gary,

you might be right. I remember reading an article about the Codeweavers dropping support for OpenSuse mainly because of the mess about missing libs and so on. In the end, I feel pretty good that Codeweavers staff is reading and replying to our feedback here. So there is still hope. This matter should be taken care of asap and a decision has to be made. If you take a look at the free alternative PlayOnLinux - it's been improving and it actually has more positive reviews/feedback on USC than the "official" Wine sponsor app Crossover: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/playonlinux/

I mean, in Crossovers current state, PoL is pretty easy to setup and use after downloading it via USC. This is why ppl like Raptus start screaming and summoning the demons within - they expect a commercial app to be easier and more polished than something that is free to use. Btw, where are you Raptus? Have you been abducted by aliens again?

Alex
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-10 20:49
Hi Alex
I have not thought about Playonlinux in years, Looks as though they have good Ubuntu support. As for Opensuse it was due to lib versions being different not missing ones.
I'm not a gamer but use crossover for business programs. I also use vanilla wine. recently i came across The FDS-Team they have a custom version of wine to install Windows plugins directly to a Linux browser Firefox and Chrome. Most notable Flash 11.9 and Silverlight 5.1  I think a gaming plugin too. I contacted them and they where able to get a plugin I needed for my security system working in a few days. Take a look.
http://fds-team.de/cms/articles/2013-08/pipelight-using-silverlight-in-linux-browsers.html
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-11 04:35
Hello Gary,

true, PoL has come a long way. It offers a lot for the price of ... zero dollars. Same here though, we use Crossover at home for business and gaming needs, but only because I was able to install the needed libs for my family. My dad is over 70 years old. He would have never been able to do it by himself. The .bin and lib situation is really confusing. I even found one of your old threads here: http://www.codeweavers.com/support/forums/general/?t=26;forumcurPos=100;msg=143928

Sad fact is, the lib issue you described in the last post are the same libs missing on Ubuntu too - even after a fresh install of Crossover 13 via .deb. It's the same crap on Ubuntu 13.10 as well.

Alex
Silviu Cojocaru
Silviu Cojocaru Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 8
Posted 2014-01-11 06:53
PoL is good stuff, especially for someone new. Distro packagers do good work and if sticking to the "recipes" that are offered one should encounter few surprises. The upsell for CrossOver on the other hand is a far larger library of software that can be installed just by downloading a crosstie or searching in CX itself.

For example PoL still has no "official" way to install the Battle.net Desktop Client or Hearthstone. We do. Provided that all the supporting dependencies have been installed and cxdiag only complains about minor stuff like hal support (which is deprecated anyway) and there are plenty more examples like that.
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-11 07:39
Hi Alex
The thing with the missing lib or I should say not automatic installed libs perplexes me. I participate in all the beta testing and always report all missing libs and all needed sim links to the crossover team. You would think thoughs would get added to the final product it must be a logistics thing. I do know the crossover team has set up a FAQ based on my Opensuse reports it is a bit hard to find especially if you are a newbie. I looked for it last nite and found this   http://www.codeweavers.com/support/wiki/linux/faq/opensuse they even gave me credit on the FAQ my original report went a bit father http://www.codeweavers.com/support/forums/general/?t=27;mhl=156778;msg=156778#msg156778 All that being said Crossover is the best option and the most polished Wine on the planet I have been a crossover user from 2005 version 6.0 Crossover has only gotten better over the years with small setbacks from time to time I am confident it will become better and more polished.
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-11 09:58
I feel it necessary to interject...

I have been using Arch on my computer for the last 4 years now. During that time, I had fewer weird problems in general, and Crossover run at least as well, if not better than on any other distros out there.For instance, if you use an AUR helper, like yaourt, installing Crossover is just a command away, in a fairly automatic way. I still prefer the bin file myself. But one thing for sure, I haven't had any trouble finding my libraries.

If Arch, a more than hands-on distro, can make my life rather easy, how come other more "user friendly" distros aren't that friendly? The answer is simple, Arch follows standards, and tends to go with the way upstream intended it. With other distros, they patch, they customize, they go their own way, creating unnecessary complications supposed to help the user. This half-handed attempt of multiarch in Ubuntu 12.04, or the odd package nomenclature of OpenSuse are good example of these bizarre deicisions. I'm not saying that you should change distros, but I do question what exactly is this "user friendly" I hear so much about, since I don't always find it where I'm told I should.

That being said, like Gary, Play On Linux doesn't get me as far as Crossover. I play with POL from time to time, and I like it, but I don't find it as useful. And then, there's the fact that I don't remember POL ever having been a source of contribution to Wine. Codeweavers, on the other hand, do contribute back to Wine. In fact, there is a large overlap of developpers on both teams.
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-11 10:02
Hello guys,

@Silviu: Oh yeah, that's actually one of the reasons why I decided to go with Crossover back in the day. I agree, one has to give the ppl working on PoL a lot of credit too, because their mojo is pretty good. They have actually managed to provide features similar to the offerings found in Crossover. For example: PoL also supports "one click installation" scripts provided by the community (sorta like Crossties). They also have a nice list of one-click-install apps: http://www.playonlinux.com/en/supported_apps-1-0.html

And to make things more interesting, just like in Crossover, it's been integrated into the PoL "product":

And they also offer a bunch of config tools + Cedega Transgaming plugin support:


I think that's impressive, considering the fact that their software is free. It's unfortunate though, they don't update the version of PoL available via 12.04 USC either, but they do offer an updated version of PoL with each new Ubuntu release. On 13.10 they're offering PoL 4.2.1-1 via USC.

@Gary: Oh you are a beta tester of Crossover? Nice. Btw, I don't understand what the .deb of Crossover even does vs. the .bin. The .bin installation of CO doesn't check for dependencies, but the .deb does, right? Before you install CO via the .deb on Ubuntu 13.10, CO recommends to run the following command in a terminal: sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 ; sudo apt-get update

What exactly does that command do? With or without it, after installing it I still have missing libs. Here is an example on how it looks like on Ubuntu 12.04 and 13.10 after a fresh Crossover install:

alex@alex-TURTLEPOWER:/opt/cxoffice$ ./bin/cxdiag --debug
found libfreetype.so.6
found libgcc_s.so.1
found libXext.so.6
found libasound.so.2
libcapi20.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibCapi20]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libcapi20.so.3 library"
"Description"="Provides support for some ISDN cards. Very few applications need this."

found libcups.so.2
found libdbus-1.so.3
libfontconfig.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibFontconfig]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libfontconfig.so.1 library"
"Description"="Makes it possible to find and use the system's TrueType fonts. This is strongly recommended for office-type applications."

libgphoto2.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibGphoto2]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libgphoto2.so.2 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications access digital cameras."

libgsm.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibGsm]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libgsm.so.1 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications use the GSM codec for audio compression and decompression."

libgstapp-0.10.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibGstapp]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libgstapp-0.10.so.0 library"
"Description"="This is needed by some games and multimedia applications."

libgstreamer-0.10.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibGstreamer]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libgstreamer-0.10.so.0 library"
"Description"="This is needed by some games and multimedia applications."

libhal.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibHal]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libhal.so.1 library"
"Description"="This may be needed for Windows applications to automatically detect CD-ROM and USB key insertion."

liblber-2.4.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibLber]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit liblber-2.4.so.2 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications access LDAP servers."

liblcms2.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibLcms2]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit liblcms2.so.2 library"
"Description"="Provides color profile information to Windows applications. This is particularly useful if you have color-calibrated your screen but some applications need it even if you have not done so."

libldap_r-2.4.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibLdap_r]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libldap_r-2.4.so.2 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications access LDAP servers."

libmpg123.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibMpg123]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libmpg123.so.0 library"
"Description"="Needed by some Windows applications to play MP3 files."

libopenal.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibOpenal]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libopenal.so.1 library"
"Description"="Provides audio support to Windows applications."

libOSMesa.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibOsmesa]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libOSMesa.so.6 library"
"Description"="This is needed by some games and CAD-like applications to perform off-screen rendering."

found libresolv.so.2
libsane.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibSane]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libsane.so.1 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications access scanners."

libtiff.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibTiff]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libtiff.so.4 library"
"Description"="This is needed by some applications that need to manipulate TIFF images in their user interface."

libv4l1.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibV4l1]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libv4l1.so.0 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications access video devices."

libXcomposite.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXcomposite]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libXcomposite.so.1 library"
"Description"="This is needed for most CAD-like applications and some games."

libXcursor.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXcursor]
"Level"="Suggest"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libXcursor.so.1 library"
"Description"="Lets Windows applications use color mouse pointers. This is mostly useful for some games."

libXi.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXi]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libXi.so.6 library"
"Description"="This library provides support for joysticks and tablets. If you don't have such a device you don't need it."

libXinerama.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXinerama]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libXinerama.so.1 library"
"Description"="This is needed if your display spans multiple screens. If your computer has a single screen then you don't need it."

libxml2.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXml2]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libxml2.so.2 library"
"Description"="This library makes it possible for Windows applications read and write XML files."

found libXrandr.so.2
found libXrender.so.1
libxslt.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibXslt]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libxslt.so.1 library"
"Description"="This library lets Windows applications perform queries and transformations on XML files."

found libXxf86vm.so.1
found libz.so.1
libcrypto.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.7a: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.7f: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.8a: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.8g: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0.9.8k: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.10: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libcrypto.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibCrypto]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libcrypto.so library"
"Description"="This library provides support for secure Internet communication."

libssl.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.7a: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.7f: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.8a: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.8g: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0.9.8k: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.10: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
libssl.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[MissingLibSsl]
"Level"="Recommend"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libssl.so library"
"Description"="This library provides support for secure Internet communication."

found libgnutls.so.26
found libpng12.so.0
[MissingLibNss_mdns]
"Level"="Require"
"Title"="Missing 32bit libnss_mdns.so.2 library"
"Description"="This library is needed for network and Internet access. Installing it is strongly recommended."

And you know what the funny part is? You are still going to be missing libs, even if you install the 32-bit version of Ubuntu. Yeah, I tried it. Crossover is a great product, if you manage to get it up and running at full speed. And that's a big IF.

Alex
Silviu Cojocaru
Silviu Cojocaru Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 8
Posted 2014-01-11 10:46
J-P, while I agree with some of the points you made about Arch I'm quite sure that you'll need to add more libraries manually even if you installed from the AUR with yaourt or some similar tool on a fresh install of Arch. I'm quite sure of this since, until not to long ago, I was testing out Manjaro which apart from minor changes that divert from how Arch does things is still using the arch repos.

So, there's not one distro where lib hunting won't have to happen at some point.

I haven't done any type of packaging work for debian & friends but I remember that one could do rather crazy stuff with macros and scripting in spec files for RPMs... Maybe packaging is not that much of a "set it and forget it" type of jobs these days...

I'm thinking I should start playing with the OpenSuSE build service these days and try to get some stuff built just to get a grasp of what's what.
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-11 11:06
@J-P: Sure, join our campfire. I hear Gary has some marshmellows for us? Anyway, are you asking me something like this?



Ubuntu = good looking but under the hood = chaos? What is there more to it? 😕 Oh and what is AUR helper and yaourt? The last one sounds a bit like joghurt (in a good way).

Well, I guess that's just how life is. Some play by certain rules and standards, some don't. You'll be able to find pro and contra arguments on almost everything in life, including the huge amount of Linux distros. Some folks even create new rules on their way up to ultimate power (imagine I said that with an epic voice). As a user, there isn't much I could complain about in Ubuntu - on the contrary. I like the direction Canonical has been heading towards. But that really depends on your point of view and what you were expecting. To be naked: I hate it when I am forced to use the command line for stuff that should be automated, easy, accessible by monkey standards and good looking. I mean really, really, really ridiculously good looking. For me it's alot about simplicity and looks. Tbh Archlinux and I have only met about two or three times. We didn't get along that well. But what put me off almost immediately is the website and the information on it. The distro is for advanced Linux users and pros. Quote: "GUI configuration utilities are not officially provided, and most system configuration is performed from the shell by editing simple text files. Arch strives to stay bleeding edge, and typically offers the latest stable versions of most software." <- That right there killed it for me already. That's not what I am looking for.

And I guess the above is quite the opposite to your likings, I suppose? I assume you like to do stuff the manual way? Bins and command lines are no big deal for you. I bet you even like and prefer it that way, eh? I don't know how complicated Ubuntu's "under the hood" update politics can be from a dev point of view, but I can give you some feedback as a user coming from the Windows world. Ubuntu offers a lot of great stuff in an easy, beautiful and human way. I can give you a top ten list of what I like about Ubuntu most and why I continue to use it instead of something like OpenSuse, for example. Interested?

In the end it all comes down to a simple thing: If you choose to support a plattform like Ubuntu, you're going to have to deal with whatever issues that plattform throws at you. From a users perspective Ubuntu is delivering the things it promised to me - an open, highly accessible and powerful Linux OS for the noobs. It even has a Software Center to buy stuff. Simplicity in motion. It might look different behind those sexy curtains, but that's something a normal user doesn't worry about. It just has to work and it has to work as long as the plattform is alive and supported by its creator.

Alex
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-11 12:08
Yup, I like to make the campfire roar!

First off, no, Manjaro is not Arch, period. I tried Manjaro too, and it isn't the same at all. Sure it is similar, since it is based on Arch, but you ain't there. There are many changes which make that distro very far from the principle and workings of Arch. And if you look at the AUR page for Crossover, the dependencies are basically all there and will be installed. Granted, at this point the AUR entry has been neglected, since it is still for CX 12.5.

As for the AUR, that stands for Arch User Repository, and it contains PKGBUILD files, which are essentially recepies for easily packaging stuff. Anything that isn't in the official repos will usually find it's way in the AUR. Usually, you can download the PKGBUILD and just do makepkg -si, and that is it. AUR helpers (there are many), will dowload the files, compile and install everything in one stroke, hence their usefulness.

As for lib hunting, I haven't done that much when I arrived on Arch myself. Like I said on another post, these days I have a "finishing off" script which configures the system and installs all the software and libraries automatically. I started with such scripts long before I used Arch. That way, when I do a new install, I don't forget anything I want, and Crossover already has everything it could ever need for my needs.

As for the "just has to work" argument, that falls short in my experience. Once installed, I would really challenge any n00b to find the difficulty in Arch. As for the installation, it is much simpler than it looks at first glance. Once Arch is installed, the system has no secrets and installation takes no more time than Ubuntu.

As for Ubuntu, and other noob friendly distros, some stuff is far from obvious. There are obscure parts to the OS which, if ever you need to fix it or modify it, will leave wondering what they were thinking. Fixing Arch is a hell of a lot easier.

I'm not saying that Ubuntu isn't more approchable, it is. What I'm saying is that there is cost to that "friendliness" that isn't friendly at all. Ubuntu's price is paid in obscurity surrounding some of it's parts. Arch price, is in demanding a greater level of competence. No distro is the greater choice, it all depends on you. But what you define as "user friendly", I have my doubts on.
Silviu Cojocaru
Silviu Cojocaru Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 8
Posted 2014-01-11 12:21
If you intend to use PulseAudio, and honestly one should use it otherwise it gets ugly, on Arch you pretty much have to install  lib32-libpulse and lib32-alsa-plugins. They're not dragged when installing CX from the AUR and that has the potential to leave one with no sound in wine applications... So, no it's not "all there".

You can make the argument that some people don't want Pulse. I pity them.

While "Manjaro is not Arch", as long as it uses the same repos except for a few things (kernel, drivers), the deps that CX requires on Arch will be the same on Manjaro and vice-versa.

J-P Simard Posted:

As for lib hunting, I haven't done that much when I arrived on Arch myself. Like I said on another post, these days I have a "finishing off" script which configures the system and installs all the software and libraries automatically. I started with such scripts long before I used Arch. That way, when I do a new install, I don't forget anything I want, and Crossover already has everything it could ever need for my needs.


So you admit you did hunt for libs. Good. Proves the point I made earlier.

Talking about new Linux users and setup scripts in the same thread. Dude... they don't make scripts. They try to install a package, maybe try to check forums/google on info about fixing issue otherwise it's "F*** it. The thing's broken. Linux sucks!" and back to Windows.
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-11 15:41
Wow
Just got back from a funeral and feel like I stepped into a gun fight. We all have our favorite distros they all interact diffidently with crossover  I wish I had programing skills to contribute back to the project  but I don't I do pass all my findings back to the team and I think it has made some peoples experience with crossover and Opensuse better.
I use OpenSuse because I almost never have to open a terminal window and I think it has the best package manager. I have use it since 2005. I did try Ubuntu and Kubuntu but had lots of trouble with dependency. I never have trouble with finding missing libs all though a newbie  mite as OpenSuse has a very different naming scheme  for instance if you needed LibSane you would install  (libSane.so1)   In OpenSusue you would install (OpenSusE sane-backends) this is something one can only learn from experience. we all must face the fact if you are going to be a Linux user you will need to commit some time to learn a few new skills  or just use *****WINDOWS***    AHH!
Silviu Cojocaru
Silviu Cojocaru Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 8
Posted 2014-01-11 17:07
Compared to what I've seen elsewhere... this is the most well mannered sort of flamewar EVER :)
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-11 18:11
Silviu Cojocaru Posted:


So you admit you did hunt for libs. Good. Proves the point I made earlier.


Technically, yes I did "hunt", by typing either pacman -Ss or yaourt -Ss name_of_library. Not exactly a safari, nor much of a hunt at all. I've had to dig much deeper for a few libs under Ubuntu.

And script making I was doing almost as soon I was using Linux, so while still a noob. Of course, it should now be obvious I never was a regular user. This does tend to bias my views, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. To me, it is almost unthinkable to use something as a blackbox. I tend to forget that most want more of an appliance than a full fledge computer. I guess I'm one of the few that find tablets infuriatingly limited.

That being said, I still think any distro is way better than Windows for most tasks. I have, and will continue to support users around me that use Ubuntu (I have about 4 and their family). I have to say, I don't want anyone to change distros if they like what they're using. I personnally would try to help any user of any distro, although I might not always have the answer on hand. So anythin I have written earlier should be seen only as a commentary. I feel Arch is the best for me, but I also know it can be entirely wrong for everybody else.

Long live Ubunt.. uhmm, Linux Distros!  😋
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Gabrielle D. Profenno
Posted 2014-01-11 18:41
Hay J-P or Silviu can you jump over to (Trouble with missing libraries) before I lead George astray
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-11 21:12
"Talking about new Linux users and setup scripts in the same thread. Dude... they don't make scripts. They try to install a package, maybe try to check forums/google on info about fixing issue otherwise it's "F*** it. The thing's broken. Linux sucks!" and back to Windows."

Niahaha, nice one. This... all the way! That's exactly how it is and that's completely understandable from a newcomers perspective. A few years ago a friend of mine tried Ubuntu and switched back to Windows after just a few days. Why? At that time the messaging program Pidgin didn't support video conferences for msn. But msn messenger from Microsoft did. Now he is back on Ubuntu thanks to Skype and other easy to use alternatives. And scripts... the problem is not that I couldn't dig into it and start writing some of my own, it's just that I have chosen not to, because I don't want to. That's something I shouldn't have to be foreced to do as a mainstream/noob user of Ubuntu and Crossover 13. After all, both products focus on accessibility and ease of use for the normal Joe. Anyway, I think we can all agree to disagree on things and that's one of the main reasons why there's such a huge amount of custom Linux everywhere. Back to the topic!

This is what I want, Codeweavers. Can you make my.. NAY! ... OUR wishes come true? I'm sure Raptus would agree, but he has gone with the aliens.

- Crossover 13.x and future updates during the lifetime of currently available and future Ubuntu LTS releases (five year support timeframe) via USC.
- Crossover 13.x and future updates during the lifetime of currently available and future Ubuntu normal releases (nine month support timeframe) via USC.
- If you have to prioritize, go with LTS.
- The above should be an automated process for updates and the installation itself via USC - with no manual lib and dependency hunting whatsoever from my side.
- The above should not conflict or delete other programs.
- The above goes for 32- and 64-bit Ubuntu installations.
- Chicken.

Can it be done and can it be done in short time? Meaning - asap and not mid 2014.

Just as an example: Flavio, the creator of Minitube, updated his version of Minitube on USC a few days after I asked him to do so via his own forum. The old and broken version was getting a bunch of negative reviews on USC, but the updated and working version has been getting some very positive reviews. Verdict: Something worth paying for.

Alex
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-12 07:02
Can anyone tell me what happens when/if you change distro and everything you've bought was through the USC? How easy is it to recuperate your licence and install your stuff elsewhere?

Man, I must be getting old. I remember that when Ubuntu came out, it wouldn't even run on my little nvidia card although Suse would. The most you had was Synaptic, and it was sometimes slow and stupid. Hell, I even had to edit my own xorg config file for things to work on Ubuntu. We are now at the point where there are complaints if things aren't perfect through a Sofware Center. I would never have seen this coming when I first put Mandrake on my system... But then, I would of thought that Steam would get on Linux as a native software either.

This is good I guess, we are attracting more people to Linux. But in all honesty, I now appreciate Arch in whole other way. I'm glad there are distro to make Linux more approchable to noobs, and I'm glad that Arch will never cater to them. I glad to be in my own little universe, which deepens my understanding on my machine, where I can continue to master regular expressions in bash. I'm also glad this isn't imposed on those whom couldn't care less and want the easy stuff. I'm also amazed that we are at a point where we can coexist, and hope this doesn't change.

Lastly, Alexander, I really don't know about the chicken part, we have barely teleported a photon much less a chicken. I think anywhere in 2014 is a lot to ask. And yes, scientist acutally have teleported a photon (kind of).



Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-13 00:47
Hello J-P,

to answer your first question: You could ask every Apple and Microsoft store user that question as well. At least in our case (friends and family), I won't have to worry about the "what if..." part you mentioned, because we have been using Ubuntu for many, many years and we don't plan on switching any time soon. Sure, it's been getting a lot of heat and criticism for several things, but that's only normal and expected. You can't please everyone. In fact, I am supporting Ubuntu as much as a noob can do so in their free time and I am recommending it to everyone that I think Ubuntu would be a better solution than Windows or OSX. It really depends on the needs of the individual. I mean, even my 70+ year old father can install and actually use Ubuntu on his own - and that's saying a lot right there. I think the USC is a great idea and it's the software source for the group of users Canonical is targeting. Heck, I can even download, install and update Steam that way. For security reasons, we don't buy, download and install anything manually, expcept for Crossover. And as you've already noticed - it has been a complicated process. In our case, everything comes and goes via USC. The same goes for our iOS devices - everything comes and goes via the official Apple store. This approach is not only much more secure, stable, realiable, but it is also much more (!) stress-free. And I mean that in a big way.

Well, I can somewhat understand how you feel about "getting old". It's a new generation of Linux ppl you are facing and it's "rocking" your world. The group of ppl Canonical is targeting are the ppl coming from Windows and OSX. I think Canonical understands the "needs" of these folks pretty good and they're pushing really hard to reach out even further. Great things have small beginnings - and Ubuntu is one of those things. They're doing what many have tried and failed at - successfully reaching out to the mainstream. How often was Linux the "OS of the future" or the "better alternative to Windows for the simple minded person"? How often has a distro come "close" to actually appeal to the mainstream in a big way, but then got stuck at some point. With Ubuntu, you can see how much attention it has been getting over the years and how much support it is gaining from several companies and users. If it weren't for Ubuntu, we would have never made the jump to Linux.

Now, that doesn't mean other projects "suck" or anything like that. Every distro, project, software and amount of work is targeting a specific goal and user. In your case, Archlinux provides you the "stuff" you want. In our case, Ubuntu is the right choice. In the end, it all comes down to a simple question: Who is it for? Ubuntu is for the normal "noobish" human being looking for an easy to install and use alternative. In many ways Ubuntu is a lot more easier to install and use than a Windows or OSX system - and that shows via the huge amount of support they have been getting. It's true though, the OS has its flaws, but tell me; who or what doesn't? It's continuously improving at a more or less rapid rate, and it's good.

Regarding support: Valve + Steam are just one of the parties involved. They recommend Ubuntu via their website for a good reason. Some of which I mentioned above. I predict many other parties will follow in the next one or two years. Hell, I even see Ubuntu in Mercedes commercials nowdays. Watch the computers in the car closely:



Even Dell is marketing Ubuntu as a nice gaming alternative: http://www.alienware.com/ubuntu/ <- And then there's Mark Shuttleworth. He even talks about zombie crushing action in some of his Ubuntu videos, which get posted on Ubuntu.com. That just goes to show how much dedication and focus they have for their particular user group. Take a look (at 02:40): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukn8qbaZkU

All of that ... and much more ... is why I continue to use the system. It's combining the best of the worlds: Apple, Microsoft and Linux. And the best of it all - it's free. It's free in terms of price, openness and flexibility. What more could I ask for? So... that's why it's such a big deal having to think about command lines to manually install missing libs on something that is suppose to be more user friendly than vanilla Wine and PlayOnLinux. I just want to see, click, buy, download and run it.

PS: "I really don't know about the chicken part, we have barely teleported a photon much less a chicken." <- Unless you believe in Ufos and hidden human technology. The truth is out there, my lil friend. It's out there.

Alex
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-13 06:31
This thread is good for me. I'm so used to diving deep, I sometimes have trouble understanding any other way. Mind you, I was a windows user too, but for particular reasons, I was force to go deep, and found Windows horribly lacking. You could only go so deep, and things were sometimes "unfixable". Linux seemed like a haven.

I used Mandrake, Corel Linux for a few months, Suse, OpenSuse, Fedora, Gentoo (I must have been drunk), and some more obscure ones too. Used Ubuntu until just before Unity (maybe 1 year or 2 before). Unity wasn't the reason I left, I was eyeballin' Arch for while. During that time, there never was a time where I wasn't using the terminal or typing simple scripts.

So I was never really a part of the "normals"... It's good to be remembered what "normal" is.
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-13 08:54
Sup J-P,

it pleases me that you think that way. I guess discussing stuff like this does require some time, but somestimes it can be beneficial for the parties involved. I just hope the feedback we provided to Codeweavers earlier doesn't get lost. I'd still like to know what they think about it and what they plan to do. It's a lot of text to read through, after all. It took me a beer or two to get going. ^^ In any case, it really is interesting how ppl use their systems. My gf is finishing her master study in IT at the Goethe University here in Germany. Even though she starts and ends her day with scripting and programming stuff, she really enjoys the simplicity that Ubuntu has to offer. It has not been limiting her need to dig further into the system. But that's something I wouldn't know too much about anyway. Maybe some day... maybe. I still haven't given up hope to meet an alien in person... so there's that, I guess?

Alex
J-P Simard
J-P Simard Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 4
Posted 2014-01-13 09:17
Yeah, I used Ubuntu for a long time, but some times stuff gets moved around like I alluded to before. Samba is a good example where stuff isn't always where you expected it. At least, when I last used Ubuntu, /etc/samba/smb.conf didn't even exist, it was a per user file. A guy like me looking the smb.conf file was lost for a while, and that kind of stuff was irritating. So if you want to run things as upstream intended, and therefore the standard, you couldn't.

So if your girlfriend is looking more on the administering side, much Ubuntu information is Ubuntu specific, and going to another distro will be a whole new learning curve. That's the advantage of Arch, it follows standards. From there, it rather easy to jump on other distros and not be too alienated, or even forcing things back to standards is not out of the question. Aside from pacman (the package manager), there isn't much that isn't aligned with standards.

Guten Tag! (Don't go to far with German, Ich sprechen französish und english)
Alexander Tornow
Alexander Tornow Omniscient Mystical Exalted Nigh-invincible Supreme Raging Atomic Dragon Turbo Chief Senior Advocate, Rank 2
Posted 2014-01-19 05:46
Sup J-P,

je suis d'accord avec vous. Je pense qu'il est temps que nous revenions sur le sujet. Nous avons déjà beaucoup écrit. Je suggère que nous filtrons les informations, résumons et re-liste. Je vais ouvrir un nouveau poste pour nous dans ce forum.

Oh well, at least I tried.

Alex

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