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What is the plan to implement Wine 7 when it is available?

The Wine 6 upgrade was great! I am a happy Crossover 21.1 user on MacBook Pro Max, with my main use being Quicken 2020.

I hoping that with Wine 7 being in Beta that some of its benefits would come shortly to CrossOver.

My primary hope is that Wine 7 improves Quicken 2020 performance as I am struggling with a 255MB Quicken database.

If there are other ways to improve Quicken 2020 performance on M1 chips I am VERY open to them!

Hi there,

Our annual major CrossOver release is always based on the latest major Wine release. Once Wine 7.0 is released, we will begin work on CrossOver 22, due out later this year.

Best,
Meredith

What a day..just released!

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Does this mean there's hope for CrossOver compatibility with M1 Macs in the near future? Can we look forward to being able to run 32-bit games at playable frame rates comparable to what we'd experienced on previous Intel Macs?

1

Geoffrey Zimmer wrote:

Does this mean there's hope for CrossOver compatibility with M1 Macs
in the near future? Can we look forward to being able to run 32-bit
games at playable frame rates comparable to what we'd experienced on
previous Intel Macs?

I don't think Wine 7 does anything in that regard (32-bit.) Issues with M1 and games depend on the game.

Hi folks,

The issues with performance of certain 32-bit applications on M1 machines are due to Rosetta bugs, not Wine bugs. We have been working with Apple on Rosetta issues, but I can't offer a timeline for when they might be fixed.

Best,
Meredith

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Really? I'm surprised on that as Rosetta can't ruin 32-bit at all within macOS. I can appreciate it's true you wouldn't get much from Wine on that as they do run 32-bit. I'm thinking it's a request to have legacy 32-bit Intels apps run through Rosetta? Would that not require them to repackage APIs in the OS?

Meredith Johnson wrote:

Hi folks,

The issues with performance of certain 32-bit applications on M1
machines are due to Rosetta bugs, not Wine bugs. We have been
working with Apple on Rosetta issues, but I can't offer a timeline
for when they might be fixed.

Best,
Meredith

Bob Warren wrote:

Really? I'm surprised on that as Rosetta can't ruin 32-bit at all
within macOS. I can appreciate it's true you wouldn't get much from
Wine on that as they do run 32-bit. I'm thinking it's a request to
have legacy 32-bit Intels apps run through Rosetta? Would that not
require them to repackage APIs in the OS?

On macOS Catalina it was passionless to reenable 32Bit code execution it’s just macOS lacks 32Bit libraries, never tried this again so not sure it Apple still allowed this.

Anyway wine32on64 is 64Bit not 32Bit and runs 32Bit process within a 64Bit thread (trunking to from as needed) so as far as Rosetta2 is concerned everything is 64Bit code.

Some of the slowdowns are due to things like SSE2 (that it doesn’t support) and generates crap executable code that’s slow. The other side is the constant trunking (64>32>64) the more this happens the more the performance drops. I remember there was an old Winehq video explains this concept.

I noticed that Wine 7.0 includes WoW64, which is the built-in emulator Windows uses to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit Windows. My understanding is that in Wine 7 (and therefore future versions of CrossOver) the 32-bit translation could potentially be handled by WoW64 instead of Wine32on64 in Wine 7. Would that improve 32-bit compatibility? Even on an ARM build of Windows the 32-bit translation (although I think it's technically emulation) is excellent and can run most programs and games flawlessly. I'm no expert about any of this so I'm just curious what the implications might be when crossover 22 launches with Wine 7.

Kaiden Cloward wrote:

I noticed that Wine 7.0 includes WoW64, which is the built-in
emulator Windows uses to run 32-bit apps on 64-bit Windows. My
understanding is that in Wine 7 (and therefore future versions of
CrossOver) the 32-bit translation could potentially be handled by
WoW64 instead of Wine32on64 in Wine 7. Would that improve 32-bit
compatibility? Even on an ARM build of Windows the 32-bit
translation (although I think it's technically emulation) is
excellent and can run most programs and games flawlessly. I'm no
expert about any of this so I'm just curious what the implications
might be when crossover 22 launches with Wine 7.

A quick google search (thanks Wikipedia!) tells me that WoW64, at least in Windows, switches the CPU itself to a 32bit compatibility mode. This leads me to believe that it may not be as helpful as it seems.

Having the functionality in Wine will mostly help with our release process, as we won't have to redo the 32on64 work on top of every Wine release. Hopefully, that'll mean that once this functionality is working in CrossOver 22, we'll be able to have nightly builds running 32-bit applications on current macOS. The CPU emulation on ARM will still be done by Rosetta 2, so that part won't be improved.

There are some compatibility advantages to supporting WoW64, but it's unusual for applications to depend on this.

For now, there's still some work that needs to be done before Wine can run GUI applications in WoW64 mode.

There may be some performance advantage over 32on64, because the interface between 32-bit and 64-bit libraries will be deliberately designed, which may result in fewer mode switches.

1

No longer needing to worry about building universal dylibs (i386 & x86_64) will resolve tons of headaches.

And I’m sure not needing a custom llvm/clang version will help matters internally also m.

Thanks for the information you two! Good to know that this may indeed lead to some speedups / improvements.

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